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JOINT PRESS CONFERENCE President Kagame of the Republic of Rwanda and President Thabo Mbeki of the Republic of South Africa

At the end of a two-day State Visit to Rwanda, the President of the Republic of South Africa, H.E. Thabo Mbeki and his host, Rwandan President, H.E. Paul Kagame held a press conference at which they answered questions on issues of mutual interest between their countries.

FULL TRANSCRIPT OF PRESS CONFERENCE:

Questions and Answers.

Question - Chris Simpson, B.B.C.:
The communiqué referred to both the Burundi and DRC conflicts and the respective peace processes. What do you think South Africa can do to help the peace processes? The communiqué talks about satisfaction with what has happened in Burundi, but for many people it seems to be sliding out of control again, and the outlook for the Lusaka process in Congo also looks extremely bleak at the moment. What is South Africa going to do to help stabilize those situations?

 President Mbeki
 Well, I am not sure that it is a South African thing. I think it is a regional thing. As you know, the negotiations with regard to Burundi, the negotiations in Arusha, reached a particular point, agreements were signed, and it was agreed to shift further negotiations to Burundi. I know that the Secretary-General of the United Nations is looking at the question of what the United Nations could do to address the matter of the security of the leadership that would be going back to Burundi for the continuation of the discussions. That matter has not stalled or is not by any means bleak. I also know that both the FDD and the FLN are in discussion with the facilitator of the process, Nelson Mandela to address the matter raised in the communiqué of the ceasefire in Burundi. So that work is continuing, to get that ceasefire so as then to open the way to addressing the rest of the matters there. So I wouldn't consider the situation myself to be bleak. I think a great deal of progress has been made and is being made with regard to addressing those two outstanding questions so that the next steps can be taken.

With regard to the Congo, again you know that earlier this week the Presidents of Congo, Zimbabwe, Rwanda, Uganda, Namibia, Mozambique and South Africa, met in Maputo to look at the question of further expediting the process of the implementation of the Lusaka agreement. As part of that process, by agreement of that meeting in Maputo, the Defence Ministers of Rwanda, Congo, Zimbabwe, South Africa, are meeting on Friday, to look at the practical measures to be taken with regard to the implementation of that process.

A communication has been sent to the Secretary-General of the UN with regard to the MONUC supervision of that process of forced disengagement in the Congo. So, I think that particular matter is also moving. So with regard to both instances, as I was saying, it is not a South African matter, it is a regional matter and both processes, both Burundi and the Democratic Republic of Congo, I am quite convinced myself, that from the actual facts of what is happening, those processes are moving forward.

 Question- Emmanuel Goujon, AFP:
Is South Africa trying to get more involved in the negotiation and mediation concerning the conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo? Up to now it was more Zambian President Fredrick Chiluba. Now it seems that South Africa is putting a step forward in this process. So, is it your intention to get more involved in this mediation process?

 President Mbeki
 South Africa has always been involved in the process from the very beginning. Indeed I am sure that you know that even before Mobutu left, South Africa was involved and we have never relaxed our participation in that process. President Chiluba continues to be the overall convener of the process of the implementation of the Lusaka agreement. He continues to do that, so there is no change as far as that is concerned. What happened in this specific instance was that the governments of the countries with troops in the Congo together with President Kabila, asked us to facilitate a particular meeting. That meeting falls within the context of the processes convened by President Chiluba. It is not a separate thing. It falls within that context, but they asked if we could convene that meeting as a matter of urgency, which we did. But the process overall continues to be convened by President Chiluba. It does not mark any change in terms of South Africa's involvement in this process. As I said, we have been with the process even before Mobutu left. And that hasn't changed.

 Question- Virginie Gomez, RFI:
There have been changes in the situation in the DRC. There is a big push towards Mbandaka by the rebels and on the other side Kabila's allies are putting pressure on him to negotiate an end to the conflict. Do you think those two facts can have a positive impact on the resolution of the conflict? (Translation from French)

 President Mbeki
 Well, I don't know if there has been any change with regard to the positions that were taken when we met in Maputo, a position which, as you can see, is reiterated in the communiqué. Everybody agreed that the ceasefire must be observed, everybody agreed that all forces must move to positions that had been agreed to in Kampala. The meeting further welcomed the offer made by President Kagame to move the Rwandan forces further back by 200 kilometres beyond the positions agreed to in Kampala in order to emphasise Rwanda's commitment to the implementation of the Lusaka agreement and to enhance the prospects for peace and the implementation of the agreement. So everybody is agreed about that, and as a consequence of which of course, that meant that the conflicts in that part of the Congo, towards Mbandaka, should also come to an end and that such forces as are there should move to the positions that had been agreed as I say in Kampala. This would mean a disengagement. This is an agreed position by everybody, that those positions were endorsed as much by President Kabila as by everybody else who was there. It did not require, I don't think, any pressure it was an agreed position.

 Question-Martin Sembazi, TVR News:
President Mbeki, you are one of the proponents of the African renaissance. Skeptics say that so many conflicts on continent make the idea dead. What is your comment about this, and what would you say to about the recent Summit (of the OAU) in which it was proposed that Africa should be united, that is the United States of Africa?

 President Mbeki
 Well, you know that the objective of African unity is not a new objective. Indeed that is precisely why the OAU was established. So, that idea is fundamental to the future of the continent. What happened was that everybody reiterated a commitment to that idea, with some practical steps to take to advance what has been a commonly agreed objective on the continent for 40 years or more. So, it is an important movement forward. The African parliaments will be meeting quite soon in South Africa to look at what was agreed in Lomé to take forward that process of how then these parliaments should come together to address continental problems. It is an important process, but as I say, the position in itself towards African unity is an old position on the continent of which the very establishment of the OAU was a reflection of a commitment.

With regard to the issue of an African renaissance, we face many challenges as you know. There is the challenge mentioned in the communiqué of peace, security and stability. We face challenges on the continent of very difficult struggles against poverty, against disease, against ignorance, against underdevelopment. We have to address other urgent questions like the advance in development of technology and the danger of Africa being left behind. You have heard people talk about a digital divide. So there are many questions of this kind which have to be addressed when you are talking about the rebirth of the African continent. And therefore, I am sure, it must be clear to anybody who thinks, that that rebirth cannot be achieved in a day. We are talking of a long process as a result of which we will indeed have peace on the continent. We will have democratic systems on the continent, development, an end to poverty, and all of that. And that is going to take time. It is going take time and, no doubt, from day to day there will be reverses. But, I am sure that also from day to day you will have advances. There are major developments that have been occurring on the African continent of a positive kind. I think the end to military rule in Nigeria for instance, and the election of a democratic government was a very important advance within the context of this global thing we are trying to achieve on the African continent. I think that even when you look at the situation in Algeria, clearly that conflict in Algeria, I think calming down and being managed better, and I think Algeria is proceeding towards peace. I think that is an important advance with regard to things that we are trying to achieve on the African continent. I think if you look at the last two or three years, you would count the number of democratic elections that have taken place on the continent. So you can see that there is a lot of progress in all of these things.

I think anybody would be very foolish indeed if they thought that you can overcome these problems on the African continent which have accumulated over centuries, starting with massive depopulation of the African continent of it most economic citizens through slavery. And for five centuries you have do live with all that, and the impact of colonialism. It would be very foolish for anybody to think that you can overcome that legacy in one week or one year. So, I am quite sure that those of us who have confidence in the capacity of the peoples of our continent, are confident that we will indeed make progress on all of these questions. So, a temporary setback today does not mean that the continent is not moving forward. Africa is not defined by the conflicts that occur on the continent. If you do a little bit of counting of the countries on the continent, you will see that the overwhelming majority are not involved in any conflicts. It is not even defined by dictatorships, because again you find that the majority of governments on the continent are not dictatorships. So, I think we are moving, but we need to apply ourselves with great vigour, but also we need to avoid subjecting ourselves to pessimism each time a fly passes in front of your eyes, your confidence collapses. I think it is wrong. I think it is foolish.

 Question-Emmanuel Goujon, AFP:
This question is addressed to both Presidents. President Mbeki, you participated in the opening ceremony for the National Summit on unity and reconciliation in Rwanda. I would like to know, what is your reading of the current situation, and my question to President Kagame, what do you think the Summit will lead to?

 President Mbeki
 The One thing that I should say I am really very pleased with the commitment of President Kagame and the leadership of this country to taking all the necessary steps indeed to ensure that Rwanda becomes a democratic country. You will know that in addition to that commission dealing with the question of unity and reconciliation, there is another one dealing with the matter of drafting a constitution. It will be a democratic constitution. That is a very important initiative, as part of that whole process of establishing a firm and stable democracy in Rwanda. You know what has happened already with regard to the area of local government and other elections that are planned. So, there is very good movement with regard to that. Secondly, I think that the approach that has been taken with regard to the matter of national unity and reconciliation is very good with regard to bringing in all the Rwandan people into this process, to confront their history, their past, to talk about what they have all experienced. I think that what the Government of Rwanda has done with regard to the integration of the people who have returned from the Congo for instance, has been a very important contributor to the building of that spirit of unity and reconciliation. There could be more global public awareness of what is happening in this country. It is a very courageous effort to overcome a major catastrophe. I think what is being done in this country speaks of this Africa that we are trying to construct much, much more. It is much more reflective of the Africa we are trying to construct, than other things that are happening on the continent. I really do wish that a way could be found to tell this story and to lend more support in carrying out this very difficult task.

 President Kagame
 The visit is in good light. I think it is a signal of the good relations between our two countries, which did not come about just after I became President. The friendship between our two countries has been there for a long time, despite the difficulties we may have had in the recent past, which we have since overcome.

So the visit is well received, and we appreciate it, regardless of whether it comes when I am President or not. Even if I were not the President, it would still be very much appreciated.

 Question-Martin Sembazi, TVR News:
President Mbeki, you are one of the proponents of the African renaissance. Skeptics say that so many conflicts on continent make the idea dead. What is your comment about this, and what would you say to about the recent Summit (of the OAU) in which it was proposed that Africa should be united, that is the United States of Africa?

 President Kagame
 To answer your question, firstly the main problem is that perhaps we do not understand democracy in the same way. Maybe we do not give it the same meaning. I beg to defer in many cases with those who tend to teach Africans about democracy. Democracy is not an event. Democracy is a process. It is a process that you have to nurture, you have to let grow, depending on the conditions. In Rwanda, the principle of democracy is quite widely appreciated and accepted, but in the context of the Rwandan situation.

What President Mbeki said yesterday was extremely important. He was talking about the principle that there must be democracy, but he did not disregard the context and the process in which it must be looked at. In Rwanda, given our context, background and history, one can appreciate that actually democracy has actually started taking root. It is a matter of time before we advance on this question. We are simply delayed in that process by our legacy, the legacy that is created by many decades of political mismanagement. My impression is that we are making very good progress in the context of a very difficult situation, made difficult by our past.

© The Government of Rwanda.