Kagame speaks on the eve of the launch of Gacaca trials

On the eve of the launch of Gacaca trials in Rwanda, President Paul Kagame spoke to the BBC about the key goals and objectives of Gacaca and how it will impact on the reconciliation and healing process in Rwanda.

Excerpts below:

BBC: Mr. President, tomorrow you are in a sense inaugurating this new justice system in Rwanda, what are the key goals for you of Gacaca?

President KAGAME: There are a number of key goals. Gacaca was an innovation created out of necessity. We have tens of thousands of people in prison awaiting trial, which we know the classical justice system will not be able to handle in a reasonable space of time.

In introducing Gacaca we had a number of goals in mind. The first was to be able to fight impunity, to bring to justice those who committed crimes or were associated with the Genocide in one way or the other. The second goal is that of reconciliation, because we are in the process of rebuilding the country. We did not want to focus only on the necessity to punish those who committed crimes, we also want to rebuild the country and bring about reconciliation. These clearly are the two major goals.

Another goal is the desire to find out the real truth of what happened during the Genocide. We want to know who was responsible, why such a large part of the population was involved in the crimes, how they got involved. We would like answers to these questions, and perhaps the Gacaca trials will provide some answers.

BBC: You have said that reconciliation is a key part of Gacaca. Why do you think Gacaca will lead to reconciliation in Rwanda?

President KAGAME: The reason why we think that Gacaca will help in the reconciliation process is that it brings into play the participation of members of the population. They feel that they own the process, they feel that they have been given a forum to speak out. Once they feel they own the process, then it helps them accept the outcomes of the trials.

This contrasts with the situation in the ordinary courts. There were cases in ordinary courts that resulted in acquittals, for lack of evidence or other reasons, and the people saying that the courts are not impartial. They felt that judgements had been made on the basis of different criteria. They also felt excluded because a handful people sit and hear the cases, with little contribution from them.

With Gacaca, the people are being involved in the process. Information and facts will be presented and debated, and that way they are bound to accept the outcomes.

I also believe that through exposure, discussion, and speaking out there is a sense in which this will be a healing process where people will be able to confront those who committed the crimes, and hopefully find out the truth about what happened.

BBC: Eight years on from the Genocide, you seem to be suggesting that there is still a very long way for reconciliation and healing in Rwanda .

President KAGAME: There is no question about that. Healing and reconciliation will take a long time. It cannot take place overnight. It takes time. There is no question about that.

BBC: There are some concerns by survivors concerning witness intimidation, and the sense that judges elected by popular vote might be biased in some cases. How do you address some of those problems?

President KAGAME: Firstly, I think we should be clear that there is no system that is perfect. There is no system that we could put in place that is without flaws. We had to look at which system would, overall, provide us with a solution, then to keep working on the elements within the system that may be undesirable.

That is why it has taken us a long time to start the trials. We had to brainstorm about this new innovation, and try to anticipate the outcomes and difficulties. As I said, it is an innovation, but broadly, we think it will work.

BBC: You say that one of the main goals of Gacaca is reconciliation, but as I understand it, one of the consequences is that thousands of people who admitted, confessed to the killings, can be out after a very short time, doing community service among the very people whose relatives were killed. Would it not be a traumatic experience for the country for these people out of jail again?

President KAGAME: We are in a very difficult situation. It is like we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. We have to find a way to manage our problems. The problems are likely to be there, we must therefore find ways to manage them.

But we have a huge problem on our hands, that is 115,000 people in prison. We simply cannot continue with this situation indefinitely. We had to devise a solution to this problem. But in solving this problem, other problems may arise. We shall deal with them and devise solutions as we go along. But we are already putting in place measures to deal with the problems.

BBC: Some people in the west might simply say, 'why don't you simply hire more lawyers and speed up the court system?

President KAGAME: I don't think they would say that. Doing that requires money, and money comes from them. They also know that with that judicial system, even if you have the lawyers, the proceedings themselves take a very long time. I don't think they ready for this kind of involvement.

For them, Gacaca is actually a relief. Without being cynical, it has been, overall, some sort of concern to them, but if it could be resolved somehow by someone else, they would be very happy.

BBC: Do you feel that Rwanda has been left on its own to sort out its own problems?

President KAGAME: From the beginning, and I am sure until the end, the contribution of the rest of the world has always been minimal.

BBC: You have described Gacaca as an experiment. What if it doesn't work?

President KAGAME: Well, if it doesn't work, we will try something else. We are already trying to anticipate the difficulties we may encounter along the way. But the indications we are getting are that it will work, perhaps not 100%, but it will work to a great extent.

BBC: How critical is it for the future of Rwanda that Gacaca does work?

President KAGAME: It is very critical that Gacaca is a success. Fighting impunity and bringing about reconciliation are very critical for the future of this country. We must break away from the problems of the past, from the Genocide, and start the process of rebuilding the country. Gacaca will play a key role in that process.

ENDS.