Rwanda and Uganda must
focus on living as neighbours in peace, Kagame says.
Following
talks in Cape Town, South Africa last Wednesday with Presdient Mbeki of
South Africa, President Mkapa of Tanzania, President Museveni of Uganda
and President Kabila of the Democratic Republic of Congo, President
Kagame met with Daniel Makokera of SABC and talked about problems in
relations between Rwanda and Uganda, and recent developments in the DRC.
Excerpts
below:
Question: Mr.
President, would you say that the ghost of Kisangani has come back to
haunt Rwanda and Uganda?
Answer: Well, I not sure that the problems between Uganda and Rwanda
started with Kisangani. They could have started perhaps well before Kisangani.
Certainly, Kisangani did not help things to get any better rather the bad situation
was made worse than it was before.
I think we must, however, remain focused on two neighbours living
together in peace. So irrespective of what has happened in the past, irrespective
of the misunderstandings and their causes, by focusing on the importance of living
as neighbours in peace, we have to work towards getting rid of the causes of the
problems between us and Uganda. That is where the focus is, and we are going to try
everything possible through discussions and airing our grievances to each other, and
hopefully settling down to addressing them.
Question: Mr.
President, it is interesting that you say the differences did not start
with Kisangani. What would you say are the outstanding issues that you
would want to resolve?
Answer: I would not want to pre-empt our efforts to resolve the
problems by discussing the details in the media. The media should be satisfied with
knowing that problems exist and we are discussing them with a view to having them
resolved.
Question: We
hear people talking about 'the third way'. We have seen Uganda and
Rwanda discussing their problems in the United Kingdom and elsewhere.
But it seems like once we have seen you agreeing on one thing, yet
another comes up. What would you say is the 'third way' that would allow
relations to thaw?
Answer: Well understandably, resolving some of these issues is a
process. It takes a bit of time because there continues to be disagreements even in
understanding the root causes of the problems. But we cannot give up, the process
must continue. As we continue, we should also be more honest and frank with ourselves
and with each other, with the very realization that the consequences of our
misunderstandings, if they were to worsen, would be very regrettable for both countries.
We both need to work to ensure that the situation does not get worse. Rather it should
get better.
Question:
Reports coming out indicate that there could actually be a war. It
is interesting that you say the consequences could be regrettable. Are
we about to see a war between Rwanda and Uganda?
Answer: No, I think we shall do everything to avoid it. That is my
feeling.
Question: Are
your forces in the DRC, Mr. President?
Answer: No, absolutely not. And I would like to be very clear on this.
We have no forces, be it small or big numbers, in the Congo. But we still have security
concerns there. We withdrew all our forces in good faith and on the understanding that
those who agreed to guarantee the process would work with us to neutralize these threats
to our country. We withdrew our troops, taking enormous risks, because there were no
preconditions. We just put our faith in the process and supported it.
The UN and the verification team which involves South Africa have gone
on the ground, verified and came out very clearly with a report. Mr. Ngongi, the
representative of the UN Secretary General, came out clearly recently to say that they
had done everything and could verify that there was no trace of our presence in the
DRC or any reason to believe that we are there. I am aware that these rumours persist,
coming from certain individuals and NGO's, but they are politically motivated I would
say.
I also believe that the confusion might be arising out of another
political problem that is in the Congo, that I hope will be resolved by the Congolese
government once these groups get together and form a transitional government. The
problem is that some Congolese who speak Kinyarwanda are taken to be Rwandese. But
they are not Rwandese. They are a big number, as you know millions of people in eastern
Congo, both south and north Kivu. They are Congolese by nationality of Kinyarwanda
culture. Sometimes this is used politically to refer to them as foreigners. Some of
them are in the RCD, so sometimes this is used to mean that Rwanda is present in the
DRC, but they are actually talking of Congolese of Kinyarwanda culture.
For sure we are not there and the UN has confirmed this. If we were
to be there, we would not hide it. It would be known and we would explain why we would
have taken that course of action. We would not hide it, we would tell the world in
broad daylight.
Question:
Some people say that if you say the threat is still there, why is it
that you are demobilizing your army?
Answer: Demobilisation has been taking place, but we have had to slow
the process down until we assess the threat correctly and see how the trends develop.
But we have demobilized thousands of our troops, and we continue to do so. You will
understand that threats to our security will slow the demobilization process down, but
will not stop it.
Question:
With recent developments in the DRC, the conclusion of the Inter
Congolese Dialogue, how do you see this panning out in terms of
stability for you country and the wider region?
Answer: For every step taken to normalize the situation in the DRC,
through the Inter Congolese Dialogue and other initiatives on the ground, it is to our
pleasure. We would like to see Congo stabilize, we would like security return to Congo,
and for them to be able to effectively exercise control over their country so that
they can address some of the concerns we have that originate from there. We are always
happy to make whatever modest contribution we can to support the process so that we
can achieve peace, security and stability in the Congo and the wider region.
Question:
Light at the end of the tunnel, would you say for the Great Lakes?
Answer: I think that despite the problems that remain in Burundi and
Congo, overall I am optimistic that we shall one day have peace and security in the
region.
ENDS.