Rwanda and Uganda must focus on living as neighbours in peace, Kagame says.

Following talks in Cape Town, South Africa last Wednesday with Presdient Mbeki of South Africa, President Mkapa of Tanzania, President Museveni of Uganda and President Kabila of the Democratic Republic of Congo, President Kagame met with Daniel Makokera of SABC and talked about problems in relations between Rwanda and Uganda, and recent developments in the DRC.

Excerpts below:

Question: Mr. President, would you say that the ghost of Kisangani has come back to haunt Rwanda and Uganda?

Answer: Well, I not sure that the problems between Uganda and Rwanda started with Kisangani. They could have started perhaps well before Kisangani. Certainly, Kisangani did not help things to get any better rather the bad situation was made worse than it was before.

I think we must, however, remain focused on two neighbours living together in peace. So irrespective of what has happened in the past, irrespective of the misunderstandings and their causes, by focusing on the importance of living as neighbours in peace, we have to work towards getting rid of the causes of the problems between us and Uganda. That is where the focus is, and we are going to try everything possible through discussions and airing our grievances to each other, and hopefully settling down to addressing them.

Question: Mr. President, it is interesting that you say the differences did not start with Kisangani. What would you say are the outstanding issues that you would want to resolve?

Answer: I would not want to pre-empt our efforts to resolve the problems by discussing the details in the media. The media should be satisfied with knowing that problems exist and we are discussing them with a view to having them resolved.

Question: We hear people talking about 'the third way'. We have seen Uganda and Rwanda discussing their problems in the United Kingdom and elsewhere. But it seems like once we have seen you agreeing on one thing, yet another comes up. What would you say is the 'third way' that would allow relations to thaw?

Answer: Well understandably, resolving some of these issues is a process. It takes a bit of time because there continues to be disagreements even in understanding the root causes of the problems. But we cannot give up, the process must continue. As we continue, we should also be more honest and frank with ourselves and with each other, with the very realization that the consequences of our misunderstandings, if they were to worsen, would be very regrettable for both countries. We both need to work to ensure that the situation does not get worse. Rather it should get better.

Question: Reports coming out indicate that there could actually be a war. It is interesting that you say the consequences could be regrettable. Are we about to see a war between Rwanda and Uganda?

Answer: No, I think we shall do everything to avoid it. That is my feeling.

Question: Are your forces in the DRC, Mr. President?

Answer: No, absolutely not. And I would like to be very clear on this. We have no forces, be it small or big numbers, in the Congo. But we still have security concerns there. We withdrew all our forces in good faith and on the understanding that those who agreed to guarantee the process would work with us to neutralize these threats to our country. We withdrew our troops, taking enormous risks, because there were no preconditions. We just put our faith in the process and supported it.

The UN and the verification team which involves South Africa have gone on the ground, verified and came out very clearly with a report. Mr. Ngongi, the representative of the UN Secretary General, came out clearly recently to say that they had done everything and could verify that there was no trace of our presence in the DRC or any reason to believe that we are there. I am aware that these rumours persist, coming from certain individuals and NGO's, but they are politically motivated I would say.

I also believe that the confusion might be arising out of another political problem that is in the Congo, that I hope will be resolved by the Congolese government once these groups get together and form a transitional government. The problem is that some Congolese who speak Kinyarwanda are taken to be Rwandese. But they are not Rwandese. They are a big number, as you know millions of people in eastern Congo, both south and north Kivu. They are Congolese by nationality of Kinyarwanda culture. Sometimes this is used politically to refer to them as foreigners. Some of them are in the RCD, so sometimes this is used to mean that Rwanda is present in the DRC, but they are actually talking of Congolese of Kinyarwanda culture.

For sure we are not there and the UN has confirmed this. If we were to be there, we would not hide it. It would be known and we would explain why we would have taken that course of action. We would not hide it, we would tell the world in broad daylight.

Question: Some people say that if you say the threat is still there, why is it that you are demobilizing your army?

Answer: Demobilisation has been taking place, but we have had to slow the process down until we assess the threat correctly and see how the trends develop. But we have demobilized thousands of our troops, and we continue to do so. You will understand that threats to our security will slow the demobilization process down, but will not stop it.

Question: With recent developments in the DRC, the conclusion of the Inter Congolese Dialogue, how do you see this panning out in terms of stability for you country and the wider region?

Answer: For every step taken to normalize the situation in the DRC, through the Inter Congolese Dialogue and other initiatives on the ground, it is to our pleasure. We would like to see Congo stabilize, we would like security return to Congo, and for them to be able to effectively exercise control over their country so that they can address some of the concerns we have that originate from there. We are always happy to make whatever modest contribution we can to support the process so that we can achieve peace, security and stability in the Congo and the wider region.

Question: Light at the end of the tunnel, would you say for the Great Lakes?

Answer: I think that despite the problems that remain in Burundi and Congo, overall I am optimistic that we shall one day have peace and security in the region.

ENDS.